Capitol Chaos

[said]

How can you not be shocked by it? The sight of a large mass of thugs chanting heave ho as they surge forward pressing all of their weight against stolen riot shields, crushing a police officer against a steel door. Not just once, many times over. The police officer is bleeding and obviously in considerable pain. And all of this taking place in the seat of government in a Western democracy, where the chamber is in session certifying the results of the general election.

I'll ask you once again: Would you take the same cavalier attitude if this had occurred in the HoP when the House of Commons was in session? I guarantee that you would be outraged, and probably the most vociferous member on this forum.

You find my comments irrational. The majority of Americans, both red and blue, share my outrage at what happened that day. To you America is a distant country, one that you've probably visited, but know very little about. To me it's a very close neighbour, one that I know well and care about. What happens there matters to Canada, and it matters to me.



Much of your so called 'balance' would have been null and void if you had taken the time to fact check.

When, one wonders, will you stop worshipping at the Altar of Mammon?

That riot appears to be completely baseless. If as is said - a large group of protestors gathered to protest about the election - what was the purpose of attacking the Police - that gained nothing. If the police were there to ensure a peaceful protest, then the authorities were ill prepared, and this would also make no sense a all because the FBI closely monitor all activists very closely just as they did eight years ago for OWS. I think the Guardian published a report on this.

Who organised the riot? It is obvious that the protestors were well prepared with banners, flags, T-shirts and caps? There also appears to be separate groups of protestors, who travelled in from many states across America - most were behaving peacefully and standing back, while others tried to stop the more determined protestors who were hell bent on creating a noise - rather like Antifa, in fact very much like Antifa. Sort of 'rent a mob' - where there was nothing to be gained except media attention.

Those who turned up for a genuine protest returned home disappointed. Those who created most noise were there for an alternative reason.

The videos show that some of the few police there were opening barriers and letting protestors through, and also shown are spotters on the roof tops watching the mob but they did not call for back up. There are several videos - this one give a completely different aspect, showing hardly any police around at all.
<yt-formatted-string force-default-style="" class="style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="word-break: break-word;">utube -https://youtu.be/LnXjAETL5qc Vi</yt-formatted-string>deo - shows a group heading into the west side of the building - they were pushing forward and some were filming but little violence. Another shows some people walking around an office in the building - no violence. One policeman fell to the ground and a video shows several people helping him up on his feet. This video shows just how few police there were https://youtu.be/kAeUobgzsFQ and that most people had nothing to do with those people at the front. Definitely a weird protest -

[The PNP]

This video shows just how few police there were and that most people had nothing to do with those people at the front. Definitely a weird protest

Not dissimilar to the primitive tactics used at the battle between Boadicea and the shield-equipped Romans.....Fighters leading at the front and taking on the Romans, with wives and the rest of the camp followers milling about at the rear.

[silver fox]

That riot appears to be completely baseless. If as is said - a large group of protestors gathered to protest about the election - what was the purpose of attacking the Police - that gained nothing. If the police were there to ensure a peaceful protest, then the authorities were ill prepared, and this would also make no sense a all because the FBI closely monitor all activists very closely just as they did eight years ago for OWS. I think the Guardian published a report on this.

Who organised the riot? It is obvious that the protestors were well prepared with banners, flags, T-shirts and caps? There also appears to be separate groups of protestors, who travelled in from many states across America - most were behaving peacefully and standing back, while others tried to stop the more determined protestors who were hell bent on creating a noise - rather like Antifa, in fact very much like Antifa. Sort of 'rent a mob' - where there was nothing to be gained except media attention.

Those who turned up for a genuine protest returned home disappointed. Those who created most noise were there for an alternative reason.

The videos show that some of the few police there were opening barriers and letting protestors through, and also shown are spotters on the roof tops watching the mob but they did not call for back up. There are several videos - this one give a completely different aspect, showing hardly any police around at all.
<yt-formatted-string force-default-style="" class="style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer" style="word-break: break-word;">utube -https://youtu.be/LnXjAETL5qc Vi</yt-formatted-string>deo - shows a group heading into the west side of the building - they were pushing forward and some were filming but little violence. Another shows some people walking around an office in the building - no violence. One policeman fell to the ground and a video shows several people helping him up on his feet. This video shows just how few police there were https://youtu.be/kAeUobgzsFQ and that most people had nothing to do with those people at the front. Definitely a weird protest -

Of course it was peaceful windows broke due to the cold, attempts to breakdown doors using poles, flagstaffs etc, ransacking offices perfectly peaceful, chanting to kill Mike Pence and others all perfectly peaceful, sure there were some wandering around in a slightly bemused state, but this was a real attempt to prevent the official count of the electoral college.

The policeman who died was struck with a fire extinguisher, all perfectly peaceful of course

You claim to look at various sources for information, try the various US news and media sites, film from the rioters has been posted by many of the stupids who can't understand why they are being arrested.

[said]

Of course it was peaceful windows broke due to the cold, attempts to breakdown doors using poles, flagstaffs etc, ransacking offices perfectly peaceful, chanting to kill Mike Pence and others all perfectly peaceful, sure there were some wandering around in a slightly bemused state, but this was a real attempt to prevent the official count of the electoral college.

The policeman who died was struck with a fire extinguisher, all perfectly peaceful of course

You claim to look at various sources for information, try the various US news and media sites, film from the rioters has been posted by many of the stupids who can't understand why they are being arrested.

I do read much on various sites - that is how I know that the FBI would have been fully aware of this protest taking place. Why were there so few Police around when there were hundreds at the BLM protest? Why did the Police open the barricades to let them through? Why did the roof top spotters not call for back up? What were the names of those who died? The videos I have shown were taken by people who were present at the protest with no other motive other than to inform. The media videos are completely different because they need to sell news. Never ever trust American media/ news sites. Their prime focus is on the stock markets.

[silver fox]

I do read much on various sites - that is how I know that the FBI would have been fully aware of this protest taking place. Why were there so few Police around when there were hundreds at the BLM protest? Why did the Police open the barricades to let them through? Why did the roof top spotters not call for back up? What were the names of those who died? The videos I have shown were taken by people who were present at the protest with no other motive other than to inform. The media videos are completely different because they need to sell news. Never ever trust American media/ news sites. Their prime focus is on the stock markets.

I will certainly grant you that the police’s preparation and response were curious and very low key, given that many were well aware of the potential for violence.

Trump did the initial damage with his anti democracy campaign, but even when the invasion was in full flow, wouldn’t call up other resources, in fact others had to get authorisation where they could, as to why the initial security was so sparse is very much under investigation.

Unusually I have a good measure of agreement with the above post.

[sandGroundZero]

I do read much on various sites - that is how I know that the FBI would have been fully aware of this protest taking place.

1. Why were there so few Police around when there were hundreds at the BLM protest?
2. Why did the Police open the barricades to let them through?
3. Why did the roof top spotters not call for back up? …

— post #79

DC mayor calls in National Guard ahead of pro-Trump protests

— Associated Press, January 5, 2021

The various law enforcement agencies and indeed, anyone who read or viewed (derisively described main stream) media had ample advance notice of likely violent mischief. There are however, protocols to be followed. After-the-fact disclosures suggest what BLM activists well know, namely that policing is different for 'white' citizens including protesters vis-à-vis those seeking racial justice.
D C police authorities must answer those questions (i, ii & iii above) and many others.

_____________________________________________________________________________

The videos I have shown were taken by people who were present at the protest with no other motive other than to inform. The media videos are completely different because they need to sell news. Never ever trust American media/ news sites. Their prime focus is on the stock markets.

— post #79

…a remarkable degree of cycnicism? Or, is it conspiracist delusion?

Some forum posters repeatedly advocate discounting MSM. They'll take it upon themselves to curate news sources and then brashly assert their superior insight and their impartiality!
Believe it? Not likely.

[Desert Region]

You do get carried away with your invective don't you ?
and then you get it wrong (again) I have lost count of the number of times I have corrected you, calm down the orange one is going.

Compared to the riots America has had recently this is definitely no worse.

It is wrong but America has allowed people to riot and damage property for too long.



Donald Trump tells supporters to go home after Capitol stormed by rioters

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...rat-joe-biden/

But what about cars! And motorists!

[Alikado]

I do read much on various sites - that is how I know that the FBI would have been fully aware of this protest taking place. Why were there so few Police around when there were hundreds at the BLM protest? Why did the Police open the barricades to let them through? Why did the roof top spotters not call for back up? What were the names of those who died? The videos I have shown were taken by people who were present at the protest with no other motive other than to inform. The media videos are completely different because they need to sell news. Never ever trust American media/ news sites. Their prime focus is on the stock markets.

The answers to most of your questions are because it was Whites Protesting and not Blacks.

[silver fox]

The answers to most of your questions are because it was Whites Protesting and not Blacks.

Plus don’t forget the whole thing inspired by Trump, aided and abetted by assorted sycophants.

Notice the FBI have put out warnings to all state capitol buildings of possible (probable) coming under attack by armed right wing thugs.

[The PNP]

But what about cars! And motorists!

Difficult to point a finger at them tbh....From what I saw on tv, this riot was perpetrated almost exclusively by pedestrians.

[seivad]

I do read much on various sites - that is how I know that the FBI would have been fully aware of this protest taking place. Why were there so few Police around when there were hundreds at the BLM protest? Why did the Police open the barricades to let them through? Why did the roof top spotters not call for back up? What were the names of those who died? The videos I have shown were taken by people who were present at the protest with no other motive other than to inform. The media videos are completely different because they need to sell news. Never ever trust American media/ news sites. Their prime focus is on the stock markets.

The police did not open the barriers. The guy who took the video has stated that he posted the video with the caption: 'Group Just Pushed Capitol Police'. The video went viral on social media, but the drama kings and queens on social media decided that captions such as 'Police Open the Effing Gates' was far more catchy

All security forces were aware of the potential violence, yet the Capitol Police decided they could handle it alone. Why the Defence Dept. or Homeland Security didn't devise a coordinated plan is beyond me. They've certainly done it before at Trump's behest. Remember the tear gas and riot gear on unmarked responders when Trump did his bible photo-op? How many people (peaceful protestors) were injured on that day?

Donny Junior and Giuliani left no doubt as to what they wanted Trump supporters to do when they got to the Capitol Building. I don't know if you're aware of the rally they held earlier that day, just a short distance away from the Capitol. Giuliani's cry of 'let's have trial by combat' and hyper-Donny's 'You can either be a hero or you can be a zero, and the choice is yours. But we are all watching. The whole world is watching, folks, choose wisely. ... These guys better fight for Trump. Because if they’re not — guess what? I’m going to be in your backyard in a couple of months. We’re coming for you, and we’re going to have a good time doing it.' made it perfectly clear.

You can Google what Trump said, then take a look at the symbolic makeshift noose built by the mob for Mike Pence.

[said]

The police did not open the barriers. The guy who took the video has stated that he posted the video with the caption: 'Group Just Pushed Capitol Police'. The video went viral on social media, but the drama kings and queens on social media decided that captions such as 'Police Open the Effing Gates' was far more catchy

All security forces were aware of the potential violence, yet the Capitol Police decided they could handle it alone. Why the Defence Dept. or Homeland Security didn't devise a coordinated plan is beyond me. They've certainly done it before at Trump's behest. Remember the tear gas and riot gear on unmarked responders when Trump did his bible photo-op? How many people (peaceful protestors) were injured on that day?

Donny Junior and Giuliani left no doubt as to what they wanted Trump supporters to do when they got to the Capitol Building. I don't know if you're aware of the rally they held earlier that day, just a short distance away from the Capitol. Giuliani's cry of 'let's have trial by combat' and hyper-Donny's 'You can either be a hero or you can be a zero, and the choice is yours. But we are all watching. The whole world is watching, folks, choose wisely. ... These guys better fight for Trump. Because if they’re not — guess what? I’m going to be in your backyard in a couple of months. We’re coming for you, and we’re going to have a good time doing it.' made it perfectly clear.

You can Google what Trump said, then take a look at the symbolic makeshift noose built by the mob for Mike Pence.

The video that I watched showed clearly a policeman taking hold of a metal barrier on the right of the screen and lifting it up, walking backwards holding the barrier to open it while his colleague was beckoning to the protesters to come through.

If you want to throe comments around - there are plenty:

"Joe Biden’s deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield chimed in and accused President Trump of “inciting violence.” There is, however, ample evidence to discredit these unsubstantiated allegations.First, much of the “inciteful” rhetoric has come from those on the left. For example, Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) previously stated, “If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.”
Sen. Cory Booker encouraged people to “get up in the face of some congresspeople.” Nicolle Wallace encouraged Jeb Bush to punch Trump in the face. Madonna thought about blowing up the White House. Actor Johnny Depp despicably commented about assassinating a president. Additional examples abound.


Most important to note, of course, is that the violence occurring in various American cities has nothing to do with the president. Rather, it is the byproduct of weak (or nonexistent) leadership by Democrats and their unwillingness to condemn the violence." The Federalist.

[seivad]

The video that I watched showed clearly a policeman taking hold of a metal barrier on the right of the screen and lifting it up, walking backwards holding the barrier to open it while his colleague was beckoning to the protesters to come through.

If you want to throe comments around - there are plenty:

"Joe Biden’s deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield chimed in and accused President Trump of “inciting violence.” There is, however, ample evidence to discredit these unsubstantiated allegations.First, much of the “inciteful” rhetoric has come from those on the left. For example, Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) previously stated, “If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.”
Sen. Cory Booker encouraged people to “get up in the face of some congresspeople.” Nicolle Wallace encouraged Jeb Bush to punch Trump in the face. Madonna thought about blowing up the White House. Actor Johnny Depp despicably commented about assassinating a president. Additional examples abound.


Most important to note, of course, is that the violence occurring in various American cities has nothing to do with the president. Rather, it is the byproduct of weak (or nonexistent) leadership by Democrats and their unwillingness to condemn the violence." The Federalist.

I prefer to throw them around, but reading your C&P defence of the indefensible has put me in the throes of agony. Whataboutery is not a defence. Nor are your examples comparable to inciting people to storm the seat of government when the House is in session certifying the election. Nor are the accusations of incitement just coming from the left.

Care to cite your C&P source? And a link to the video that you watched?

[silver fox]

[QUOTE=said;6757209]The video that I watched showed clearly a policeman taking hold of a metal barrier on the right of the screen and lifting it up, walking backwards holding the barrier to open it while his colleague was beckoning to the protesters to come through.

If you want to throe comments around - there are plenty:

"Joe Biden’s deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield chimed in and accused President Trump of “inciting violence.” There is, however, ample evidence to discredit these unsubstantiated allegations.First, much of the “inciteful” rhetoric has come from those on the left. For example, Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) previously stated, “If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.”
Sen. Cory Booker encouraged people to “get up in the face of some congresspeople.” Nicolle Wallace encouraged Jeb Bush to punch Trump in the face. Madonna thought about blowing up the White House. Actor Johnny Depp despicably commented about assassinating a president. Additional examples abound.


Most important to note, of course, is that the violence occurring in various American cities has nothing to do with the president. Rather, it is the byproduct of weak (or nonexistent) leadership by Democrats and their unwillingness to condemn the violence." The Federalist.[/frQUOTE]

You’re scratching around now, you will find very little hate and violence promoters from the left, what there is, would be lost in the avalanche of lies and promoting of subversion, the calls to arms, even calling for civil war, all from the deluded right wing.

Any attempted power grab from extremists of any colour, whether political or religious, must be opposed.

[bensherman]

61 court cases.
All thrown out.
A wide range of experts and observers confirming there was no significant fraud.
Members of Trump's own government agreeing it was a fair election.
Biden 7 million margin in the popular vote.
There was no fraud, at least by Democrats.
The only documented fraud was double-voting by a Trump supporter in Nevada and the bogus vote collection kiosks in California, admitted by the Republicans.

But in the months leading to the election, attempts by Trump, to disable the USPS to delay and disqualify postal votes. Voter suppression in Texas, Georgia and Florida. By the GOP

Trump had said , in the summer, that if he lost it would be a rigged election. While polls showed Biden ahead pretty much to the margin he finally won by.

So Trump now tries to make his prophecy true, irrespective of the consequences. Tries acts to subvert the vote which no previous politician would have dared to do. While repeating he had been cheated, without ANY verified evidence. Courts throwing out his efforts in disgust. Giulani now faces losing his NY licence to practice for his behaviour.

Yet these people still believe him. People for whom he has contempt. There is some kind of repressed anger venting here and he has unleashed it.

But we should not overestimate these loud oafs. How do the 70 million plus who DID vote for him feel now, as they watch his ego drag the US into anarchy? My guess is that millions of ordinary Americans will never vote for him again.