Capitol Chaos

[local]

Projecting much?

Don't worry soon he will be gone and you can shine your faux outrage in another direction.

Why didn't you take the opportunity to show me where the master orator wound up the mob.

Having ground through the transcript I would have thought most would have got a headache, was it his interweaving of metaphors and abstract ideas that stirred you?

The musicality of his rhetoric?

Or perhaps you were swayed by his cinematic good looks, the hair maybe.

Aren't you assigning him some superpower he simply doesn't have to cover your frail position?

[Hector]

I'm surprised the impeachment of Biden hasn't been mentioned. Or have I missed it?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syr...outputType=amp

[local]

It's becoming very popular but like Trumps impeachment where's the evidence ?


Simply not liking someone hopefully isn't enough.

I have read the article, it makes some familiar accusations but without enough evidence.

[sandGroundZero]

…Why didn't you take the opportunity to show me where the master orator wound up the mob.
Having ground through the transcript I would have thought most would have got a headache, was it his interweaving of metaphors and abstract ideas that stirred you? … — post #151

If as you continue to insist, President Trump's January 6^th rally address was banal and uncontroversial, to what should be attribute the subsequent disturbance? Are you suggesting that the perpetrators of the Capitol invasion planned just that? [Evidence is accumulating that among some there was, indeed, a plan; though the planners were evidently wrong-footed when the Capitol's defenders were so quickly overcome.]

If they did arrive intent on mayhem, who do you suppose was responsible, if not President Trump? Was it:

Hate and violence is a trademark of left wing demonstrations and that is when the riot police would normally be out in force.

Of course they came and patiently attended Trump's oration.

[joan ofarc]

Don't worry soon he will be gone and you can shine your faux outrage in another direction.

Why didn't you take the opportunity to show me where the master orator wound up the mob.

Having ground through the transcript I would have thought most would have got a headache, was it his interweaving of metaphors and abstract ideas that stirred you?

The musicality of his rhetoric?

Or perhaps you were swayed by his cinematic good looks, the hair maybe.

Aren't you assigning him some superpower he simply doesn't have to cover your frail position?

Well, I would have but was locked out for a day due to security issues and now I can't be bothered. If you take the word 'fight' alone you will see that he was whipping the crowd up. But you won't agree so I'm not wasting my time anymore.
You can take that as a victory if it makes you feel better.

[local]

At least your starting to accept there may be other trigger points than Trumps speech for the storming of congress.

The likelihood is that events unfurled through the day as a few hotheads found they could advance further.

Then as we all saw the mass just poured in through the weight of numbers.

This wasn't a riotous crowd, so many poured in taking pictures and telling others not to damage things, most following the rope barriers.

A well drilled riotous mob would have taken the place to bits in no time at all.

They didn't unlike recent demonstrations in the US look to wreck,steal and destroy the place.

The worrying part was how calm and measured so many were.

[local]

Well, I would have but was locked out for a day due to security issues and now I can't be bothered. If you take the word 'fight' alone you will see that he was whipping the crowd up. But you won't agree so I'm not wasting my time anymore.
You can take that as a victory if it makes you feel better.

I take no comfort from pyrrhic victories the truth is no matter how long you spent it wasn't there.

Pointing out the one-word fight in such a long (and dull speech) is a last desperate event to salvage something, you know as I do its use;

I fought for justice,
I fought for my rights,equality etc was/is not a call to arms.

Again you imbue him with abilities he doesn't have.

He is a game show host and smart alec rich property tycoon.

New York has hundreds of Trump-a-likes well before he rose up and will have plenty more.

[silver fox]

At least your starting to accept there may be other trigger points than Trumps speech for the storming of congress.

The likelihood is that events unfurled through the day as a few hotheads found they could advance further.

Then as we all saw the mass just poured in through the weight of numbers.

This wasn't a riotous crowd, so many poured in taking pictures and telling others not to damage things, most following the rope barriers.

A well drilled riotous mob would have taken the place to bits in no time at all.

They didn't unlike recent demonstrations in the US look to wreck,steal and destroy the place.

The worrying part was how calm and measured so many were.

Sure a fair number were wandering round like a bunch of bit players, which is what they were.

The real mobsters didn't go in to wreck the place, they were hunting people, the aim being to intimidate or even kill those they felt to be a hindrance to the "Great Donald", this was a serious attempt to halt or even overturn the result of an election, call it what you will, but this is an attempted coup by Trump supporters, inspired by Trump, because Trump is their sort, a bully, believer in might is right, the country belongs to the few, not the many, sure you can dissect his last rally/call to arms speech and say he didn't incite that actual event, but that event was already planned, thanks to his rallies/speeches over a fair period.

How close he was to the planning is currently unknown, but again we all know that mob bosses keep their hands clean and get mugs to do the dirty work, he is an unprincipled crook, a "businessman" who managed to loose an inherited fortune, then proceeded to regain his "empire" by not paying his bills.

I've no doubt his appeal to you is only because he is anti any form of liberal/left wing policy, your UK hero has the same traits, remember that guy who illegally shut down Parliament, to avoid debate or Parliamentary decision, whether you like it or not, people are more important than political dogma or financial difficulty.

[bensherman]

It turns out that the most prominent rioters were paid,

And Trump's role in this stretches back months before the riot.

[joan ofarc]

I'm surprised the impeachment of Biden hasn't been mentioned. Or have I missed it?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syr...outputType=amp

“I would like to announce on behalf of the American people, we have to make sure our leaders are held accountable, we cannot have a President of the United States who is willing to abuse the power of the office of the presidency and be easily bought off by foreign governments, foreign Chinese energy companies, Ukrainian energy companies, so on January 21, I will be filing articles of impeachment on Joe Biden,” Greene told the conservative media outlet.

Another nut job, now in Congress. That could have been written about Trump. No wonder some House members don't feel safe around their colleagues especially since some have refused to wear masks or go through the metal detectors. Moscow Mitch has a job on his hands to purge the crazy element of the Republican party.

[sandGroundZero]

At least your starting to accept there may be other trigger points than Trumps speech for the storming of congress.
The likelihood is that events unfurled through the day as a few hotheads found they could advance further.
Then as we all saw the mass just poured in through the weight of numbers.
This wasn't a riotous crowd, so many poured in taking pictures and telling others not to damage things, most following the rope barriers.
A well drilled riotous mob would have taken the place to bits in no time at all.
They didn't unlike recent demonstrations in the US look to wreck,steal and destroy the place.
The worrying part was how calm and measured so many were.

— post #156

The "trigger points" were the doing of Trump, his associates & underlings, plus organizations which Trump had cultivated.
There were no "hotheads"; there were worryingly "calm and measured", Trump-anointed wannabe revolutionaries. The intrusion at the Capitol building on January 6^th was not a riot per se — it was intended to disrupt what in less fraught election years is a formality.

You've asserted: "This wasn't a riotous crowd". Fair point; many were (more-or-less law abiding) Trump supporters who'd no part in anything remotely resembling a plan to intimidate legislators. However, that's rather beside the point. There were in attendance enough Trump supported miscreants to create disruption. We are all lucky that President Trump is intellectually lazy and consequently imagined that this level of intimidation would effect the outcome he desired.

A future anti-democratic demagogue will not be so cack-handed.

____________________________________________________________

As for your "Pyrrhic victory" — I suspect most readers of this thread will regard it more like smug complacency. You might well take no comfort.

.

[Alikado]

[local]

The "trigger points" were the doing of Trump, his associates & underlings, plus organizations which Trump had cultivated.
There were no "hotheads"; there were worryingly "calm and measured", Trump-anointed wannabe revolutionaries. The intrusion at the Capitol building on January 6^th was not a riot per se — it was intended to disrupt what in less fraught election years is a formality.

You've asserted: "This wasn't a riotous crowd". Fair point; many were (more-or-less law abiding) Trump supporters who'd no part in anything remotely resembling a plan to intimidate legislators. However, that's rather beside the point. There were in attendance enough Trump supported miscreants to create disruption. We are all lucky that President Trump is intellectually lazy and consequently imagined that this level of intimidation would effect the outcome he desired.

A future anti-democratic demagogue will not be so cack-handed.

____________________________________________________________

As for your "Pyrrhic victory" — I suspect most readers of this thread will regard it more like smug complacency. You might well take no comfort.

.

It very much is the point as the majority were "more or less law abiding" many demonstrations see a minority of people who use it as an excuse for trouble.

The majority were clearly not incited to do much other than wander around taking selfies.

They weren't very incited were they?


The charge is "incitement of insurrection" yet the overwhelming majority clearly were not violent.

So which did he incite the selfie-takers, the overwhelming majority or the minority?

Can you be charged with inciting people to be peaceful or violent at the same time?



The reality is Pelosi and her co-conspirators want Trump out of the running.
If they were honest about that and the debate might just expose it during the hearing we might just get a very different outcome to the one she wants.

Millions of Americans know a stitch-up when they see one.

[silver fox]

Millions of Americans know a stitch-up when they see one.

Which is why they voted for Biden.

[Alikado]

It very much is the point as the majority were "more or less law abiding" many demonstrations see a minority of people who use it as an excuse for trouble.

The majority were clearly not incited to do much other than wander around taking selfies.

They weren't very incited were they?


The charge is "incitement of insurrection" yet the overwhelming majority clearly were not violent.

So which did he incite the selfie-takers, the overwhelming majority or the minority?

Can you be charged with inciting people to be peaceful or violent at the same time?



The reality is Pelosi and her co-conspirators want Trump out of the running.
If they were honest about that and the debate might just expose it during the hearing we might just get a very different outcome to the one she wants.

Millions of Americans know a stitch-up when they see one.

If they had been black it would have been different, there would have been calls for the death penalty for such an attack on American Democracy.