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…better still, let's banish oversized, over powered motor vehicles
Let's make the town centre more livable.
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Originally Posted by sandGroundZero
…better still, let's banish oversized, over powered motor vehicles
Let's make the town centre more livable.
For who, there will be no-one there, unless you turn the town centre residential, then there will be no need to cater for visitors, shoppers, traffic problems largely vanish, along with everything else.
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Originally Posted by silver fox
For who, there will be no-one there, unless you turn the town centre residential, then there will be no need to cater for visitors, shoppers, traffic problems largely vanish, along with everything else.
— a bald assertion!
If I remember your contributions on this topic elsewhere you, silver fox, appear to believe that accommodating cycling and other Active Travel measures somehow make visiting the town so impossibly difficult that the so-called Visitor Economy will collapse — an evident fallacy without a shred of support.
You would have us believe that making Southport more livable is bad for business. Yet, this is not a local policy; it is national in scope. Modifications to our modes of travel will apply in towns and cities up and down the country. Over time, such progress as has been made in making transportation cleaner and safer will continue; indeed it will accelerate, if the UK is to meet its GHG emission targets. No visitors will be surprised. Failure to make the town's environment more pleasing is the threat to our Visitor Economy.
Your refusal to imagine a better future is at the very least blinkered!
You might consider the adverse impacts on Southport business (and residents), if as a consequence of not addressing carbon emissions there are increasingly frequent extreme weather events. • Flooding in and around Southport is already a common occurrence as are damaging winds.
• Noise levels and foul air likewise. Those are not conducive of a thriving local economy.
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Originally Posted by sandGroundZero
Failure to make the town's environment more pleasing is the threat to our Visitor Economy.
Agree.....Nobody travels miles and miles, just to be surrounded by a sea of cars - they can see them anywhere.
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Originally Posted by The PNP
Agree.....Nobody travels miles and miles, just to be surrounded by a sea of cars - they can see them anywhere.
They don't they travel and park not stay in their cars.
The electric car ready town will be the long-term winner.
Those thinking visitors from Wigan, Chorley, Preston, Liverpool etc will be coming by bike with their families have had their heads up a chimney.
Holding them up doesn't make good business sense.
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Originally Posted by local
They don't they travel and park not stay in their cars.
The electric car ready town will be the long-term winner.
Those thinking visitors from Wigan, Chorley, Preston, Liverpool etc will be coming by bike with their families have had their heads up a chimney.
Holding them up doesn't make good business sense.
Makes no difference what mode of transport visitors use, none of them come here to see more cars - they come for a unique shopping experience and the seaside.
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Originally Posted by The PNP
Makes no difference what mode of transport visitors use, none of them come here to see more cars - they come for a unique shopping experience and the seaside.
You must have missed it, I said;
"they don't they travel and park not stay in their cars"
And if you could give us all the figures for people travelling to shop on their bikes from the likes of Wigan, Chorley, Preston, Liverpool etc that would be interesting and I reckon you won't need to take your socks off to count them.
As with the current cycle lanes we could then measure the increase in the numbers you claim.
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Originally Posted by sandGroundZero
— a bald assertion!
If I remember your contributions on this topic elsewhere you, silver fox, appear to believe that accommodating cycling and other Active Travel measures somehow make visiting the town so impossibly difficult that the so-called Visitor Economy will collapse — an evident fallacy without a shred of support.
You would have us believe that making Southport more livable is bad for business. Yet, this is not a local policy; it is national in scope. Modifications to our modes of travel will apply in towns and cities up and down the country. Over time, such progress as has been made in making transportation cleaner and safer will continue; indeed it will accelerate, if the UK is to meet its GHG emission targets. No visitors will be surprised. Failure to make the town's environment more pleasing is the threat to our Visitor Economy.
Your refusal to imagine a better future is at the very least blinkered!
You might consider the adverse impacts on Southport business (and residents), if as a consequence of not addressing carbon emissions there are increasingly frequent extreme weather events. • Flooding in and around Southport is already a common occurrence as are damaging winds.
• Noise levels and foul air likewise. Those are not conducive of a thriving local economy.
I am as aware as anyone that the whole world must reduce polluting emissions, what I object to is this naive belief that singling out the car and favouring cycling is going to have some magical effect.
Southport relies on visitors, anyone who believes that visitors will cycle in from surrounding towns is dreaming, you may increase local cycle use a little, but where will the visitor trade come from?
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Originally Posted by local
You must have missed it, I said;
"they don't they travel and park not stay in their cars"
And if you could give us all the figures for people travelling to shop on their bikes from the likes of Wigan, Chorley, Preston, Liverpool etc that would be interesting and I reckon you won't need to take your socks off to count them.
As with the current cycle lanes we could then measure the increase in the numbers you claim.
Perhaps more families from out-of-town would ride here, if there were quality traffic free cross-country cycleways for them to use (see my next post).
Last edited by The PNP; 30/06/2021 at 08:41 AM.
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Originally Posted by silver fox
I am as aware as anyone that the whole world must reduce polluting emissions, what I object to is this naive belief that singling out the car and favouring cycling is going to have some magical effect.
Southport relies on visitors, anyone who believes that visitors will cycle in from surrounding towns is dreaming, you may increase local cycle use a little, but where will the visitor trade come from?
Well, I must have been dreaming last time I rode the towpath. Because a foreign-sounding gent on a bike asked me the way to Southport. He was riding the Pier-to-Pier cycle route (NCN562), which utilises the towpath to connect Wigan with Southport. It may be narrow and have a rough surface, but that doesn't stop the more determined riders from making it through.
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Originally Posted by The PNP
Well, I must have been dreaming last time I rode the towpath. Because a foreign-sounding gent on a bike asked me the way to Southport. He was riding the Pier-to-Pier cycle route (NCN562), which utilises the towpath to connect Wigan with Southport. It may be narrow and have a rough surface, but that doesn't stop the more determined riders from making it through.
Determined cyclists will cycle whatever, you have no need to convert the already converted, your real market isn’t quite that simple, getting non cyclists to use bikes over more than a short distance is another issue, people from more outlying areas will simply not get the bikes out for a visit.
Young, single I cycled from Holmeswood into Southport, Preston and at times farther afield, but later married with a young family, no chance, now age and common sense stops ideas of cycling at all.
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Originally Posted by silver fox
A) Determined cyclists will cycle whatever, you have no need to convert the already converted, your real market isn’t quite that simple, getting non cyclists to use bikes over more than a short distance is another issue, people from more outlying areas will simply not get the bikes out for a visit.
B) Young, single I cycled from Holmeswood into Southport, Preston and at times farther afield, but later married with a young family, no chance, now age and common sense stops ideas of cycling at all.
A) I got the impression the one I met was a newbie. He was on a straight-handlebar bike and from the questions he asked, hadn't been over this way before.
Distance, particularly for the previously non-cycling types, is becoming less of an issue nowadays. I'm seeing electric bikes with increasing frequency. These machines enable new riders with limited legpower, to cover considerable distances at a decent speed.....It's time cycling infra caught up with demand for safer routes.
B) Well, there you go. People, inc yourself when able, do sometimes ride from town to town. This needs encouraging with separate safe tarmac, if we're to see more of it. Because I don't believe it's distance that puts people off so much, but the intimidatingly high level of traffic on our roads.
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Originally Posted by silver fox
I am as aware as anyone that the whole world must reduce polluting emissions, what I object to is this naive belief that singling out the car and favouring cycling is going to have some magical effect.
You impute "naive belief …". It is not the case.
The reality is that it is necessary to encourage different modes of transportation. Clearly there is inertia to be overcome. The PM has lead this Conservative government with the particular policies you are implicitly objecting to. A campaign to encourage objections is dilatory. The policy is meant to encourage cycling for short journeys and to offer those cyclists who might choose to cycle across town some additional encouragement.
…Southport relies on visitors, anyone who believes that visitors will cycle in from surrounding towns is dreaming, you may increase local cycle use a little, but where will the visitor trade come from?
There is no reason to believe that out-of-town visitors will be deterred. It is simply false to suggest that the cycling infrastructure proposed is intended to induce non-cyclists to make such a journey, or that it will discourage visits. This argument is specious.
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The car is a busted flush, for some the bike may be the last resort mode of transport but the day is coming, fossil fuels for personal transport will be banned before too long and electric is not sustainable as we cannot afford the infrastucture.
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