Brexit again

[silver fox]

BBC lunchtime news

Just watched our floppy haired PM say clearly we need to prepare for an Australia type deal, which actually means NO DEAL, remember how he finally got this thing through Parliament, it was with the promise that NO DEAL was off the table.

So much for promises and guarantees.

[DixieRoy]

He has wanted no deal since day one.
It will be disastrous for most of us I am sure of that.

[sandGroundZero]

Sovereignty (the last refuge of Brexiteers) is quite a slippery concept, in reality.

1. If the EU and the UK simply declined to regulate the flow of goods and people across a border on the island of Ireland (— an effective possibility of post #7), then then presumably the sovereignty of both is diminished. If sovereignty does not imply a border, what does it signify?
2. Also, there is the troublesome question of who is claiming sovereignty on behalf of whom? Evidently the Westminster government is proclaiming its sovereigny over the six counties of Northern Ireland — a claim which many so-called Irish 'Nationalists' in Northern Ireland strongly dispute. Besides which (not altogether coincidentally) the suspension of 'national sovereignty ' is an implicit foundation of the Belfast Agreement!

But, taken to its logical extreme, national sovereignty would require the complete physical and social isolation of states from one another. Indeed, an excessive emphasis on national sovereignty leads to serious problems: after all, any international agreement, whether political or economic, entails a certain transfer of sovereignty.

— Whose Sovereignty? Javier Solana, Project Syndicate

The outcome is likely to be the re-unification of the island of Ireland.

[Toodles McGinty]

Sovereignty (the last refuge of Brexiteers) is quite a slippery concept, in reality.

1. If the EU and the UK simply declined to regulate the flow of goods and people across a border on the island of Ireland (— an effective possibility of post #7), then then presumably the sovereignty of both is diminished. If sovereignty does not imply a border, what does it signify?
2. Also, there is the troublesome question of who is claiming sovereignty on behalf of whom? Evidently the Westminster government is proclaiming its sovereigny over the six counties of Northern Ireland — a claim which many so-called Irish 'Nationalists' in Northern Ireland strongly dispute. Besides which (not altogether coincidentally) the suspension of 'national sovereignty ' is an implicit foundation of the Belfast Agreement!

The outcome is likely to be the re-unification of the island of Ireland.

I'd say it is inevitable. If the GFA is ripped up, the only solution surely is the reunification of Ireland. Or those factions involved will be digging up their arms caches again.

Along with Scottish independence. Or another vote, at least.

I've still got money on Al Kemal resigning in the New Year. If not, he could be the last PM of the UK.

Wonder where the Queen fits in this. No longer Queen of NI? Scotland just another Commonwealth country?

Intriguing.

[salus.populi]

It's very good of him to give us two and a half months to get ready for a national disaster, but isn't getting ready for it the government's job.
What exactly does the average person need to do to get ready? It's not as if I can import my own food outside of whatever customs rules will be in place or do we all need to become smugglers?

[The PNP]

What exactly does the average person need to do to get ready? It's not as if I can import my own food outside of whatever customs rules will be in place or do we all need to become smugglers?

Well that rules me out - I couldn't smuggle so much as a budgie!

[local]

Yawn yawn yawn, same old same old I'm off to stock my bomb shelter.
If the French want access to our waters can we trade for access to their vineyards ?

[Toodles McGinty]

While he has declared 'prepare for an 'Australia Style deal' (why does he say that, he really does think the great unwashed are imbeciles), he may shilly-shally until the results of the US election are known.

Then it's a climb down because of America, not the UK.

[silver fox]

Yawn yawn yawn, same old same old I'm off to stock my bomb shelter.
If the French want access to our waters can we trade for access to their vineyards ?

Very educated and informative response. Keep your eyes closed, hands over ears and dream of your utopia.

[Alikado]

While he has declared 'prepare for an 'Australia Style deal' (why does he say that, he really does think the great unwashed are imbeciles), he may shilly-shally until the results of the US election are known.

Then it's a climb down because of America, not the UK.

He's planning a 'Neville Chamberlain' moment, stepping off the plane waving a blank piece of paper.

[Toodles McGinty]

He's planning a 'Neville Chamberlain' moment, stepping off the plane waving a blank piece of paper.

Yep, and we know how well that went...

[sandGroundZero]

David Cameron as Flashman.
Photograph: Martin Rowson/Guardian

At the outset, David Cameron believed his IN/OUT Referendum was a shoo-in. He was supremely confident of his salesmanship. What's more, the clamour for Britain leaving the European Union was a crisis for the Conservative party. All he ever had to do was to win the battle in the Conservative parliamentary party and among the few tens of thousands of Conservative party members who, for a variety of reasons were minded to lend their votes to Nigel Farage & Co. His self-assurance was badly misguided. Had Cameron not been so dismissive of the discontent engendered by his and George Osborne's austerity, he would have recognized that people were not voting on BREXIT, they were voting against him & his ilk.

[local]

Very educated and informative response. Keep your eyes closed, hands over ears and dream of your utopia.

Whatever side of the argument you are on can't you just accept it isn't over till the fat lady or Boris sings.

We had the same old posturing last time and endless accusations which ultimately proved vacuous.

Macron is mincing around, Merkel is menacing and just like last time many of the member states are saying nothing.

[salus.populi]

While he has declared 'prepare for an 'Australia Style deal' (why does he say that,

Because it's a hot, sunny, English speaking, predominantly white country where many Brits have relatives.

The reality is that Somalia has a better relationship with the EU than Australia but that wouldn't appeal to the average Brexidiot.

[local]

Those lawless Somalian pirates plundering the high seas seem a great fit with the EU.