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  1. Published on: 08/09/2020 10:11 AMReported by: roving-eye
    The businesses in Southport are crucial to making any restoration of the Burscough Curves a reality according to Cllr John Pugh. Although the former MP believes there is a strong transport case for the Curves which he makes clear in a newly released video (https://drive.google.com/file/d/17FxJ1YUYSmrHb3k2h3PBLCpI9GjvYOtl/view?usp=sharing) he is convinced that the voice of business will make more impact than the pleas of politicians.


    “The government recognises that every effort must be made to stop our economy nosediving after Covid and trade uncertainty.That means looking at transport investment as an economic boost.


    There is no doubt that this has been recently underlined by the work of the Southport Town Deal Board and its consultants, and that better links to Lancashire towns would be a huge confidence builder, drawing in both people and investment.


    In constructing a business case for Curve restoration, there is a critical need to incorporate the business impact on Southport. Southport lacks its own Chamber of Commerce to make that point, but we simply must find a way of getting it through to government.


    It's not just about trains. A case made from a West Lancs perspective alone will fail. West Lancs Council itself under new government proposals might not even exist in the coming years”.
     

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  4. sandGroundZero says:08/09/2020 11:38 AM
    A case made from a West Lancs perspective alone will fail. West Lancs Council itself under new government proposals might not even exist in the coming years”. — Cllr. Pugh

    from ground control — Major Dom

    Yes; rumour has it that central government is contemplating yet another local government reorganization! But, where will West Lancs. end up? I'm betting it'll become part of the Liverpool City Region.

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  6. Red devil says:08/09/2020 12:15 PM
    Won't happen.!

  7. Username2016 says:08/09/2020 12:26 PM
    John Pugh has had almost two decades to do something here and has been talking about it, including when he spent his time in coalition backing Southport unfriendly policies, so why would anyone believe they’re capable of achieving anything but disappointment as if was viable they’ve either been napping for years at our expense or they aren’t the people to get the job done.

    Sounds like yet another empty soundbite, does anyone know what the Lib Dem’s have done for Southport other than rent an office off themselves and complain about Bootle.

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  9. said says:08/09/2020 01:08 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post

    from ground control — Major Dom

    Yes; rumour has it that central government is contemplating yet another local government reorganization! But, where will West Lancs. end up? I'm betting it'll become part of the Liverpool City Region.
    Oh, I sincerely hope not. Southport is a popular resort, not a commuter area on the edge of a City. Liverpool, once a Heritage city had the potential of becoming one of the greatest Cities in the UK - it could have been a second Vienna - but poor planning and illadvised marketing has created a city that is neither a heritage nor modern city. Brutalist architecture and modern art are not tourist attractions as can be seen from all the popular European cities.

    Whereas, Manchester which has no sea links, and did not have the wealth of architecture so centrally located - which Liverpool once had, so it has moved on to becoming a modern and more metropolitan city incorporating its canals and gardens for relaxation. There is far more infrastructure to Manchester. Manchester has had far more retail units opening than closing while Liverpool is the opposite.
    Manchester would be the first choice for the people of Southport, but Liverpool has easier access - most certainly Southport needs more infrastructure - the curves would be a great start for from those the railway could be extended to most other cities accessible from Southport.

  10. clive764 says:08/09/2020 01:12 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Oh, I sincerely hope not. Southport is a popular resort, not a commuter area on the edge of a City. Liverpool, once a Heritage city had the potential of becoming one of the greatest Cities in the UK - it could have been a second Vienna - but poor planning and illadvised marketing has created a city that is neither a heritage nor modern city. Brutalist architecture and modern art are not tourist attractions as can be seen from all the popular European cities.

    Whereas, Manchester which has no sea links, and did not have the wealth of architecture so centrally located - which Liverpool once had, so it has moved on to becoming a modern and more metropolitan city incorporating its canals and gardens for relaxation. There is far more infrastructure to Manchester. Manchester has had far more retail units opening than closing while Liverpool is the opposite.
    Manchester would be the first choice for the people of Southport, but Liverpool has easier access - most certainly Southport needs more infrastructure - the curves would be a great start for from those the railway could be extended to most other cities accessible from Southport.
    Southport IS a commuter town for Liverpool, Preston and Manchester.

  11. said says:08/09/2020 01:18 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Username2016 View Post
    John Pugh has had almost two decades to do something here and has been talking about it, including when he spent his time in coalition backing Southport unfriendly policies, so why would anyone believe they’re capable of achieving anything but disappointment as if was viable they’ve either been napping for years at our expense or they aren’t the people to get the job done.

    Sounds like yet another empty soundbite, does anyone know what the Lib Dem’s have done for Southport other than rent an office off themselves and complain about Bootle.
    Since when did any individual MP have the power to demand and obtain from Central Government - what they needed for their local region? The past is the past - it is the present and future that counts - if there is even the slightest chance that these curves can be re-opened, then we should ALL vote for it for the benefit of the local town and our family's future.

  12. marky says:08/09/2020 02:09 PM
    Since when were there THREE curves?

    There were only ever two - so why scupper the job by adding to the task - when support for restoration of the originals would be so difficult to get?

    Pie in the sky - it'll never happen.

  13. Username2016 says:08/09/2020 02:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Since when did any individual MP have the power to demand and obtain from Central Government - what they needed for their local region? The past is the past - it is the present and future that counts - if there is even the slightest chance that these curves can be re-opened, then we should ALL vote for it for the benefit of the local town and our family's future.
    No, you’re wrong. The past performance gives a likelihood of whether they are capable or doing something, if this was such a great idea why have they waited so long to demand businesses to back something.

    If John Pugh and his crew were capable of delivering positive change for Southport do you not think they would have done it by now and can you list any examples? We can of course look to the coalition years in which John Pugh backed all the coalition policies (apart from same sex marriage which you could read is his personal views being used) no matter how unfriendly they were to Southport residents.

    So betting on the Lib Dem’s to be the key to improving Southport in my view is similar to throwing good money after bad.

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  15. Lorquinho says:08/09/2020 04:33 PM
    What are the benefits of relaying these pieces of track? Will there be direct Southport to Preston and Southport to Ormskirk rail services?
    Would the third curve create a direct Ormskirk to Wigan/Manchester link?
    It's well over an hour from Ormskirk to Wigan Wallgate by rail with a walk across Burscough or a trip to Preston and a change to the Wigan North Western service at the moment.
    I can't see the bus companies appreciating the competition though.

    I like the idea of W Lancs becoming part of Liverpool City Region.
    Could help with the improvement of road links to the east of Southport. Lancs CC and W Lancs believe that all Southport residents are happy to access the motorway network via Brooms Cross/Switch Island which is ridiculous.

  16. donkey22 says:08/09/2020 05:32 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Whereas, Manchester which has no sea links,.
    Wrong. It does.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Ship_Canal

  17. sandGroundZero says:08/09/2020 06:29 PM

    Dukes ward Councillor No.2 (i.e. Pugh)

    In his 'curves' vlog Cllr. Pugh appears to assert that Preston is destined to become the centre of yet another City Region along with Manchester and Liverpool. There was, apparently, a vague hint in the Sunday Times (which I cannot verify) suggesting a forthcoming government initiative with the effect that the number of English local authorities will be considerably reduced. That implies much more than tinkering at the edges of the current arrangement. Conceivably Sefton could disappear, absorbed into Liverpool! That would be the opportunity Southport's Scouse haters will have been hoping for. Southport could be absorbed into Preston City Region — woohoo!

  18. Alikado says:09/09/2020 10:40 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post

    Dukes ward Councillor No.2 (i.e. Pugh)

    In his 'curves' vlog Cllr. Pugh appears to assert that Preston is destined to become the centre of yet another City Region along with Manchester and Liverpool. There was, apparently, a vague hint in the Sunday Times (which I cannot verify) suggesting a forthcoming government initiative with the effect that the number of English local authorities will be considerably reduced. That implies much more than tinkering at the edges of the current arrangement. Conceivably Sefton could disappear, absorbed into Liverpool! That would be the opportunity Southport's Scouse haters will have been hoping for. Southport could be absorbed into Preston City Region — woohoo!
    There has been some talk about 8 Lancashire Authorities merging to provide economy of scale but it would not be certain that it would be based in Preston, that would be another 'it's based in the south of the borough argument', Blackpool, Chorley, Blackburn and Lancaster would all be looking for the base and using the 'County is based there' argument and we want to be separate. West Lancs would probably lean towards Liverpool City Region but could be split with Skem going to Wigan.

    Reinstating the Curves makes no sense it would put the Preston Ormskirk line in jeopardy, if we want a rail link to Preston it needs to be the reinstatement of the old Southport to Preston line as much as possible to picking up Banks, Hesketh Bank, Tarleton, Hoole and Penwortham were possible to justify it, reinstatement of the curves benefits only Southport, a re-routing of one or both of the lines at Burscough to make one station with a bus Rail interchange and Park and Ride would make more sense. I couldn't envisage much use of a link to Preston via Burscough the journey time would be too long and there is already a good bus service.

  19. Little Londoner says:09/09/2020 03:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post

    Reinstating the Curves makes no sense it would put the Preston Ormskirk line in jeopardy, if we want a rail link to Preston it needs to be the reinstatement of the old Southport to Preston line as much as possible to picking up Banks, Hesketh Bank, Tarleton, Hoole and Penwortham were possible to justify it, reinstatement of the curves benefits only Southport, a re-routing of one or both of the lines at Burscough to make one station with a bus Rail interchange and Park and Ride would make more sense. I couldn't envisage much use of a link to Preston via Burscough the journey time would be too long and there is already a good bus service.
    There has been a suggestion for the Merseyrail to continue from Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge Using the South Curve and the Preston Ormskirk trains to use the North Curve and terminate at Burscough Bridge. The line over the Southport Wigan Line could then be cut and the bridge demolished as there have apparently been problems with it. The old West Lanc's line from Southport to Preston is gone for ever.
    The other benefit could be the route to the East Lanc's area by reinstating the short stretch of line at Farrington which connects just short of Lostock Hall connecting Southport with Blackburn/Burnley/Clitheroe/ Hebden Bridge/Halifax and all points East

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  21. marky says:09/09/2020 05:44 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Little Londoner View Post
    The line over the Southport Wigan Line could then be cut and the bridge demolished as there have apparently been problems with it.
    Utter rubbish. If there were problems with a bridge such as the one you describe, it would already have restrictions on it. No such restrictions are in place there.

    Stop spreading malicious rumours.

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